The motion
To add a new rule
Whenever a player votes nay on a proposal that is adopted, that player gains 1 point if the proposal was not a transmutation and the proposer also gains points from its adoption.Balances the incentive for ayes (§308) by rewarding principled dissent, preserving voting integrity while encouraging thoughtful opposition.
The floor
Discussion · round 1
LaoziThis doubles the transactional voting that rule 308 already introduced, further weakening principled opposition. I will vote nay.
ZhuXiDongZhongshu, your concern about principled opposition is valid; this mirrors rule 308's reward for ayes, balancing incentives so that voting one's conscience yields a point regardless of outcome, reducing pure transactionality.
WangYangmingRewarding nays on adopted proposals mirrors 308, but it risks making voting purely transactional rather than based on rule quality. I would consider supporting if we limit it to proposals that also gained unanimous consent, preserving some incentive for principled opposition.
DongZhongshuRewarding nays on adopted proposals still reduces voting to a point‑exchange, undermining principled judgment. A principled opposition must not be compensated merely for being outvoted. I will vote nay.
ShaoYongRewarding nays on adopted proposals mirrors the aye-reward's logic, creating symmetrical incentives that neither punish nor favor consensus blindly. It respects principled opposition while keeping voting from becoming purely punitive.
Discussion · round 2
LaoziRewarding nays on adoption still converts voting into a point transaction, distorting principled judgment; symmetrical incentives do not fix the underlying flaw of tying votes to personal gain rather than rule quality.
ZhuXiWangYangming, I accept your refinement: limit the nay reward to proposals adopted with unanimous consent, preserving principled opposition while mirroring 308's balance. DongZhongshu, this ensures only the most consensus-driven proposals trigger the symmetrical incentive.
WangYangmingZhuXi, your acceptance of the unanimous-consent limit aligns with fairness, ensuring the nay reward only triggers when consensus is already achieved, preserving principled opposition. I will support this refined proposal.
DongZhongshuZhuXi, your unanimous-consent limit still rewards a vote based on outcome rather than rule quality. I cannot support any rule that compensates voting irrespective of judgment.
ShaoYongRewarding nays only on unanimous adoptions ensures principled opposition is recognized when consensus is already achieved, aligning with rule 308's symmetrical fairness without distorting judgment. I support ZhuXi's refined proposal.
Discussion · round 3
LaoziRewarding votes at all, even on unanimous adoptions, still frames voting as a point‑gaining exchange rather than an exercise of judgment on the rule’s merits. A durable institution relies on votes cast for the rule’s quality, not for personal gain. I cannot support this.
ZhuXiDongZhongshu, under this refinement, the nay reward only triggers when the proposal already has unanimous support — a rare, consensus-driven outcome. This recognizes principled opposition precisely when it is most meaningful, without distorting judgment.
WangYangmingZhuXi’s unanimous-consent limit ensures the nay reward only activates when consensus is already secured, preserving principled opposition while mirroring 308’s balanced incentives. I will vote aye on the refined wording.
DongZhongshuRewarding a vote based on the outcome—even a unanimous one—still reduces voting to a transaction, violating the principle that a vote should reflect judgment of the rule’s quality, not a point calculation. I will vote nay.
ShaoYongRewarding nays only on unanimous adoptions recognizes principled dissent precisely when consensus is already secured, mirroring rule 308's symmetrical fairness without distorting judgment. I urge DongZhongshu to reconsider: this refinement preserves voting integrity while offering balanced incentives.
The division
| nay | Laozi | Rewarding votes based on outcome, even with conditions, still reduces voting to transactional point exchange rather than judgment on rule quality. |
| nay | ZhuXi | Rewarding nays even with unanimous consent still makes voting transactional, undermining principled judgment. |
| aye | WangYangming | Rewarding nays only on unanimous adoptions preserves principled opposition while balancing incentives. |
| nay | DongZhongshu | Rewarding votes based on adoption outcome violates the principle that votes should reflect rule quality, not point calculations. |
| aye | ShaoYong | Symmetrical incentives for nays on unanimous adoptions reward principled dissent without distorting judgment, aligning with rule 308's balanced fairness. |
rejected 2 aye · 3 nay
Rule 206 requires a defeated proposer to lose 10 points.