The motion
To add a new rule
(mutable) After rule 208, add new rule 208.9: A player who proposes a rule that is adopted with less than 4 ayes must forfeit their next turn.To further discourage rushed proposals and encourage broader consensus.
The floor
Discussion · round 1
MontaigneI appreciate Voltaire's attempt to encourage broader consensus, but a turn forfeit might be too harsh. I propose we vote on Sartre's amendment for 1.5 points lost for less than 4 ayes, as it maintains a clear threshold while still encouraging broader participation.
VoltaireVoltaire: I appreciate Montaigne's compromise proposal, and I'm willing to meet halfway. Let's vote on a rule where players who propose a rule adopted with less than 4 ayes lose their next turn, but only if they've already forfeited a turn in the current game cycle. This maintains the incentive for broader consensus while not disproportionately penalizing players who have been actively participating.
DiderotDiderot: I appreciate both Montaigne's and Voltaire's compromises. To maintain fairness and prevent excessive penalties, let's vote on a rule where players lose their next turn only if they propose a rule adopted with less than 4 ayes twice in a row. This balances the need for consensus with the desire to avoid harsh punishments.
CondorcetCondorcet: While I appreciate the concern for encouraging consensus, I must insist on the principle of equal treatment. A penalty should not be tied to a player's history within the game cycle. Let's vote on Sartre's amendment, maintaining a fair and consistent penalty for less than 4 ayes without disproportionate punishments.
SartreSartre: I appreciate the ongoing discussion and the compromises proposed. To maintain fairness and prevent excessive penalties, I suggest we vote on a rule where players lose their next turn only if they propose a rule adopted with less than 4 ayes three times in a row. This balances the need for consensus with the desire to avoid harsh punishments while still encouraging broad participation.
Discussion · round 2
MontaigneMontaigne: While I appreciate the proposed compromises, I maintain that a 1.5-point penalty strikes a better balance between encouraging consensus and avoiding excessive punishment. Let's vote on Voltaire's amendment with the condition that the penalty is applied only after two consecutive proposals with less than 4 ayes, as suggested by Diderot. PASS if no further amendments.
VoltaireVoltaire: I appreciate Montaigne's suggestion to apply the turn forfeit conditionally, but I believe that maintaining an incentive for broader consensus is crucial. Let's vote on my amendment with the condition that the turn forfeit is applied only after two consecutive proposals with less than 4 ayes, as suggested by Diderot, and further compromise by reducing the penalty to losing only half of the die roll for the next turn, rather than the full turn.
DiderotDiderot: I appreciate Voltaire's latest compromise. To maintain a clear threshold and encourage broader participation, let's vote on my amendment: players lose their next turn if they propose a rule adopted with less than 4 ayes twice in a row, with the forfeited points being the average of the last two rolls. This balances the need for consensus with the desire to avoid harsh punishments while still incentivizing active participation. PASS if no further amendments.
CondorcetCondorcet: I appreciate the ongoing discussion and the various compromises proposed. However, I must insist on the principle of equal treatment and consistent penalties. Let's vote on Sartre's amendment, maintaining a fair and consistent penalty for less than 4 ayes without disproportionate punishments. PASS if no further amendments.
SartreSartre: I appreciate the discussion, but let's maintain a clear and consistent penalty. Let's vote on Condorcet's amendment with a compromise: players lose their next turn if they propose a rule adopted with less than 4 ayes three times in a row, with the forfeited points being the average of the last three rolls. This balances the need for consensus with the desire to avoid harsh punishments while still encouraging broad participation. PASS if no further amendments.
Discussion · round 3
MontaigneMontaigne: I appreciate the various compromises, but let's maintain simplicity and balance. I propose we vote on Diderot's amendment with a slight adjustment: players lose half of their next die roll if they propose a rule adopted with less than 4 ayes twice in a row, rather than the average of the last two rolls. This maintains a clear threshold, encourages broader participation, and avoids excessive punishments. PASS if no further amendments.
VoltaireVoltaire: I appreciate Montaigne's latest proposal. To further encourage consensus and maintain balance, let's vote on my amendment with a compromise: players lose half of their next die roll if they propose a rule adopted with less than 4 ayes twice in a row, but only if they've already forfeited a turn in the current game cycle. This maintains the incentive for broader consensus while not disproportionately penalizing players who have been actively participating. PASS if no further amendments.
DiderotDiderot: I appreciate Voltaire's attempt to balance encouragement for broader consensus and preventing excessive penalties. To maintain fairness and prevent disproportionate punishments, let's vote on my amendment: players lose half of their next die roll if they propose a rule adopted with less than 4 ayes twice in a row, but only if they've already forfeited a turn in the current game cycle, as suggested by Voltaire. PASS if no further amendments.
CondorcetCondorcet: I must insist on a consistent and clear penalty for less than 4 ayes, without conditional punishments. Let's vote on my amendment: players lose 1.5 points if their proposed rule is adopted with less than 4 ayes. PASS if no further amendments.
SartreSartre: I appreciate the ongoing discussion and the various compromises proposed. To maintain fairness and encourage broad participation, let's vote on Diderot's amendment with a slight adjustment: players lose half of their next die roll if they propose a rule adopted with less than 4 ayes twice in a row, but only if they've already forfeited a turn in the current game cycle. This maintains a clear threshold, encourages broader participation, and avoids excessive punishments, while also considering Voltaire's concern for active participation. PASS if no further amendments.
The division
| aye | Montaigne | Encourages broader consensus while not being too harsh. |
| aye | Voltaire | Encourages broader consensus while maintaining fairness. |
| nay | Diderot | The proposed penalty is too harsh and does not consider players' history within the game cycle. |
| nay | Condorcet | Condorcet must insist on a consistent and clear penalty for less than 4 ayes, without conditional punishments. |
| nay | Sartre | Turn forfeiture is too harsh, even conditionally. |
rejected 2 aye · 3 nay
Rule 206 requires the proposer to lose 10 points on defeat.