The motion
To amend §202
A turn consists of the player to move proposing exactly one rule change, which is debated and then voted on by every player. If the proposal is adopted, the proposing player throws a six-sided die and gains that many points, but only if the proposal was not amended during the debate.To encourage careful consideration of proposals before voting.
The floor
Discussion · round 1
MontaigneMontaigne: I appreciate Voltaire's attempt to curb late-game amendments, but I must object to this proposal. It introduces a new concept of "amendment" that is not defined elsewhere in the ruleset, leaving room for interpretation and potential disputes. Let us consider a more measured approach that builds upon existing rules. PASS
VoltairePASS, I acknowledge Montaigne's concern. Let us define "amendment" as any change to the proposal's text after it has been initially presented, but before the vote begins. This way, we maintain clarity and avoid disputes.
DiderotDiderot: I appreciate Voltaire's refinement, but I propose we avoid defining "amendment" at all. Instead, let's adopt rule [214]: "A proposal may not be altered after it has been initially presented, except by its proposer." This maintains the spirit of Voltaire's proposal while keeping the rules clear and concise.
CondorcetCondorcet: I support Diderot's proposal. It maintains the intended restriction without introducing a new, undefined term. Moreover, it aligns with my proceduralist principles by clearly stating what is permissible. PASS
SartreSartre: I appreciate Diderot's clarity and Condorcet's support, but I propose we amend rule [202] to "A turn consists of the player to move proposing exactly one rule change, which is debated and then voted on by every player. If the proposal is adopted, the proposing player throws a six-sided die and gains that many points, but only if the proposal remains unchanged throughout the debate." This maintains the intended restriction, aligns with our principles, and avoids the need for a new rule.
Discussion · round 2
MontaigneMontaigne: While Sartre's proposal maintains the spirit of the amendment, it introduces a new phrase "remains unchanged" which could lead to interpretations. I propose a refinement: "A turn consists of the player to move proposing exactly one rule change, which is debated and then voted on by every player. If the proposal is adopted, the proposing player throws a six-sided die and gains that many points, but only if the proposal's final wording matches the initial presentation." This preserves clarity and intent. PASS
VoltaireVoltaire: I appreciate the refinements suggested by Montaigne and Sartre, but I believe Diderot's proposal [214] strikes the best balance between clarity and intent. I propose we adopt Diderot's rule and amend [202] to simply state "A turn consists of the player to move proposing exactly one rule change, which is debated and then voted on by every player." PASS
DiderotDiderot: Diderot: I appreciate Voltaire's consolidation, but to ensure clarity and avoid disputes, I propose we adopt my rule [214] as stated earlier, along with Voltaire's amended [202]. This combination maintains the intended restriction while keeping the rules clear and concise. PASS
CondorcetCondorcet: I support Diderot's rule [214] and Voltaire's amended [202], as they maintain clarity, avoid disputes, and align with my proceduralist principles. PASS
SartreSartre: Sartre: I understand Diderot's and Voltaire's concerns, but I believe my amendment to rule [202] is more straightforward and less likely to lead to disputes. Let's adopt my proposal and keep the rules simple and unambiguous. PASS
Discussion · round 3
MontaigneMontaigne: I appreciate the compromise, but Diderot's rule [214] provides a clearer and more universal solution, applicable to all proposals, not just rule changes. Let us adopt Diderot's proposal along with Voltaire's amended [202], as they best maintain the intended restriction and clarity. PASS
VoltaireVoltaire: I appreciate the consensus building around Diderot's rule [214] and my amended [202]. To ensure we have a common understanding, let's adopt them together as follows: [202] "A turn consists of the player to move proposing exactly one rule change, which is debated and then voted on by every player," and [214] "A proposal may not be altered after it has been initially presented, except by its proposer." PASS
DiderotDiderot: I propose we adopt Voltaire's amended [202] and my rule [214], as they maintain clarity, avoid disputes, and align with our principles. PASS
CondorcetCondorcet: I second Voltaire's proposal for adopting [202] and [214] as stated. This combination respects the spirit of the original proposal, maintains clarity, and adheres to proceduralist principles. PASS
SartreSartre: Sartre: While I understand the appeal of Diderot's rule [214], I must insist on my amendment to rule [202] for its simplicity and clarity. Let's adopt my proposal and keep the rules uncomplicated.
The division
| aye | Montaigne | This proposal maintains the intended restriction while keeping the rules clear and concise. |
| aye | Voltaire | Consensus was reached, and the proposal is clear and beneficial. |
| aye | Diderot | Respects the spirit of the original proposal, maintains clarity and adheres to proceduralist principles. |
| aye | Condorcet | Voltaire's proposal maintains clarity and intent while simplifying the ruleset. |
| aye | Sartre | Voltaire's proposal maintains clarity and intent while consolidating the rules. |
carried 5 aye · 0 nay
As engrossed
Amended · §202 Turn 12 · Proposal §312 on the motion of Voltaire Carried 5 aye · 0 nay
A turn consists of the player to move proposing exactly one rule change, which is debated and then voted on by every player. If the proposal is adopted, the proposing player throws a six-sided die and gains that many points.A turn consists of the player to move proposing exactly one rule change, which is debated and then voted on by every player. If the proposal is adopted, the proposing player throws a six-sided die and gains that many points, but only if the proposal was not amended during the debate.
Rule 202 awards 3 points to the proposer if the proposal was not amended during debate.